It's not looking good
Multiple agencies are now informing their clients of a 5/30 cut off date. There are a few 5/31 rumors still floating around, but it's really looking more like 5/30.
I'm sure I'll have something to say about this at some point, but right now... not so much.
Let's turn this post into "rumors only" for comments. Feel free to keep venting on any of the previous threads. I don't know what else may come in at this point, but just in case.
posted by RumorQueen at 3/23/2006 04:55:00 PM
67 Comments:
The adoption process certainly has slowed down. Our facilitator in China told
us that, if we had intention of adopting again, do it quickly. He believes it
will either slow down much more or end entirely soon. I know we're not planning
on any more, but I feel sorry for those who are.
Oh no, this can't be true the possibility of China adoption shutting down as earlier post states. Now I am very very depressed. Our dossier was sent to China in Feb and will be heartbroken. We don't have any other children and were looking forward to our first. Is this just a rumor or has anyone else heard this as well??
I've heard vague rumblings that China would shut down for years, and it never has. If China has your dossier, I'm sure you're fine. The wait may be longer than the 10 months or so your agency said, but you WILL get a child.
I have wondered myself if maybe China might not shut down like the other international adoptions have. They signed the Hague and I believe the goal of that is to keep children in their own country. I so hope that does not happen but I would not be surprised either. I do think that if you are DTC that you will be fine but for those of us hopeing for more than one Chinese daughter, I am not sure? :(
My agency (which is smaller) is telling us on their bi-monthly phone update that they are looking for more families to adopt from the China program. So if this is even a possibility they sure know nothing about it. I can't believe all these larger agencies (or smaller ones) would keep taking dossiers if they thought this was even a small possibility. I, for the most part, do not think that China nor our agencies would be that cruel.
I remember hearing the rumor (it's been a year or two) that China would close down adoptions in 2008 b/c of the Olympics. I haven't heard anymore of those rumors lately... anybody else?
P.S... I'm sure many of you saw the post this afternoon on APC that one agency is reporting that referrals are in the mail. Haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I would.
We started our adoption in Russia in 02/05 and planned on a second child from China (Russia was to take 8 months and at that time we were told China was taking 18). Needless to say we were using a small agency that was not accredidated in Russia. We should have been home with our little one from Russia in Oct 05. Even though our dossier was approved, our agency strung us along all of last summer. Finally in Sept they recommended to us that we change to China (it was only taking 6-7 months). I have already learned Never say Never. We have absolutely no control over what will happen in other countries and our agencys tell us what they feel is best at the time. LID 11/22
6:56 What is the APC? I am dying to know when they are coming! I am LID May 27!!! This is our 12th months waiting..... How do I look at APC? Thanks!
The comments seem to be spiralling downward after what is truly crappy news (to those of us DTC and waiting) if the next referral batch covers only as few days as it seems.
This seems to be like getting in a checkout line with a cart full of groceries at a busy supermarket. You keep looking at the folks in the other lines (Russia, Vietnam, Guatemala), wondering if they are moving faster than your line (China). You look up at your cashier (CCAA) and curse them out for being so slow. Eventually, you may even hop into another line. At which point, inevitably, that line slows down and the line you were in zooms along. You watch the person who took your place in your old line checkout several carts ahead of you.
Point is, you can't do a darn thing about how fast any line moves. Until you actually checkout you'll only be able to second guess, the second guessing will do you no good, and it will for sure make your waiting in line far more phychologically painful than if you'd made your wait seem to fly by by just picking up a tabloid or straightening out the mess in your purse/wallet while you stand by your cart. Nevermind the other lines or at what pace yours is moving.
First off these are all just rumors. OK, a small number of days in the next batch truly sucks.
However, if it is truly due to matching as many children as possible, and a record number of dossiers, that is not reason to panic and assume a shutdown???! Fact is, every month, for Lord knows how many months, the CCAA has been matching as many children as possible - and that has not seemed to change.
Sometimes the best medicine from spiralling downward and assuming the worst of these adoption rumors is to stop worrying about the lines we're in (Iknow that is far easier for those of us who have a DTC that isn't May 31 or June 1, I realize).
Take a break from reading the web rumors (several times a day I"d bet in many of our cases!) - force yourself off this stuff for a few weeks (sorry rumorqueen, nothing personal here).
APC is a yahoo group. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/a-parents-china/ You have to be a member to look at the messages, but it's no big deal to join. I don't go very often because most of the time the same people seem to just argue points to death. It does have some good information.
The CCAA has updated their website to August instead of July...A morsel of good news.
CCAA Update ----
The CCAA has finished the review of the adoption application documents registered with our office before August 31, 2005.
CCAA has updated their site:
The CCAA has finished the review of the adoption application documents registered with our office before August 31, 2005.
The CCAA has finished the placement of children for the families whose adoption application documents were registered with our office before May 25, 2005.
We recieved an in depth email from our agency explaining that because China is part of the Hague they now have to prove that they cannot find an adoptive family in their own country before releasing the child to an international family.
They also told us abandonment of babies has slowed down and more babies are being placed with families rather than placed into orphanages.
They did say China is trying to become a First World Country and as first world countries do not adopt their children overseas pressure is on them to cease doing international adoption.
Our agency admitted they are shocked at how fast China's adoption program has slowed down and they did say they expect China will eventualy close their door to international families.
Here's China for you -- their website is back to saying:
The CCAA has finished the review of the adoption application documents registered with our office before July 31, 2005.
This 8:08 #1. Thank god for 8:08 #2 and 8:20 otherwise I would think I was "NUTTY."
Thank you anon 8:36 pm. I just got on to check what I was reading elsewhere that August had been reviewed only to find it still said July 31st too. That happened last month as well. They changed it and then changed it back for a time.
I must admit all this talk is confirming more of what I've felt for a few months now that the wait is going to continue to slow down. I am surprised to actually hear one agency take the step to tell their families all that anon 8:34 stated. I wish our agency could get some credible info and do the same.
8:34---
Who is your agency? I am shocked by that thread of information. How can that be? I wonder if China will continue to "honor" all dossiers currently logged in....
8:34, that's a pretty bold statement for your agency to be making. Care to tell us if you are with a US agency or from another country? One of the majors or small agencies? And was it sent in a weekly update or just an unexpected email? That seems like pretty heavy news to be sent in an email.
Sometimes I wonder if people post false rumors here just to work the crowd into a frenzy.
If China did shut down, when do you think it would happen??? Are we talking months or years????
Considering it's now daytime in China, perhaps the webmaster is working on the site and tinkering with files. Something may have posted and then a link broke or some kind of geeky stuff like that.
Or maybe their webmaster is really an office person who has to do the website and really has no idea what they are doing.
Or the CCAA also gets off on screwing with the masses.
Maybe are just one big social experiment! ;)
Nah, don't worry. China isn't going to shut down anytime soon. THey'd have to put a pretty big domestic adoption plan into place. With that massive population, they is always going to be hundreds of available children. I wouldn't get worked up at all. Look how strained the CCAA is to process and match for the thousands of willing people overseas. If families in China wanted those girls, they'd have already been adopted domestically.
No worries, mon. We be fine.
The 8:34 post is perhaps the scariest thing i have ever read about our prospects to actually bring home a child from China ( it looks like #2 is out of the question now).
Nothing 8:34 says surprises me, and on some level i have known it all and just didn't want to believe it.
Scary scary stuff.
8:51
The voice of reason...thanks for the reality check!
8:34.
Since China is a 3rd world country they have some time to be a 1st world country.
I would say several several several years. Russia is considered a 2nd world country and they do international adoptions. China is just just working toward emerging as a 2nd world country. I would not say this is a big factor at this time.
I would not let this rumor hold any weight.\
And if they were going to shut down they would not be accepting any additional dossiers.
yes thank you 8:51, can we hear some more soothing words? real facts? someone? anyone? i am quaking here
has any one heard of when the current referrals are being sent to the US?
I get "In Style" magazine every month and every time they have a section called "Truth or Tabloid?" or something like that. Anyway they feature 2 celebrities and a rumor that's been circulating about them.... like "each week of last month Oprah donated blood to the Red Cross." Then, they contact the celebrity's press agent to find out if the "rumor" is true. As long as I've been reading "In Style" about 9.8 times out of 10 the "official response" of the celebrity's camp is something like... "although Oprah supports the work of the Red Cross, she did not donate blood last month."
So perhaps all these "shut down" rumors are kinda like that. Or at least I hope they are... 'cause the thought of it scares the tar out of me!!! I was hoping for this baby and then a little sister. Now, I'm on my knees praying I'll really get #1!!!!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
also, 8:56 here again.
The US does international adoption. We allow folks from Canada adopt kids...soo..that whole thing is just propaganda.
8:51... you ROCK!!! I started laughing and stopped crappin' my pants from 8:34's post.
thanks also to 8:56, you made some excellent points.
maybe i will sleep tonight after all
I talked to my sw the other day and she said that the time frame has been getting longer, however, it has fluctuated int the past, and speeded up at times. I also truly doubt that China will stop adoptions - I haven't heard that rumor... let's just all pray for the best - and yea, it's easy to say, we can't do anything, but it is nice to have this forum...
Thanks 8:54 I like your thinking. It won't shut down. My daughter hasn't come home yet.
I can not remember what country (Romania?)it was but families had dossiers in the country and it closed recently and did not open back up. The families waited a long time and fought not getting children because they had paperwork there. The US government was involved and could not get the children out of the country. I am not trying to cause trouble but it has happened in other counties. Does anyone remember what country it was? I know it was near Russia
Since when was China a third world country?
Back to the rumors. I promise that 15 minutes ago the CCAA website said that the dossiers thru 8/31 had been reviewed. Then 10 minutes later it was changed back to 7/31. What is up with that? I was not seeing things one other person has confirmed my sanity and saw it as well. Why would they do that?
8:53 We have been discussing this as well. It looks like #2 is out for us as well. The slow down is taking its toll on us and we feel we will be too old. Especially since we should be travelling now, but we are nowhere near a referral.
Is someone really asking since when was China a third world country?
Seriously? Well, always.
And it was probably Romania. They had a program and don't anymore. Ukraine was shut down as well and Russia for a while. But they gave reasons (of which I am not sure)
9:29 - according to the website link below china is a 2nd world country so you are correct according to their site.
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm
Plus I read in People sometime this year about Canadians adopting african american children. So I do believe that whole rumor is bogus! For what it is worth.
CAN"T WE ALL JUST TRY TO BE POSSITIVE!
Until I see concrete evidence, I won't believe these rumors! Our daughters are waiting for us!
8.34 back again..
I know some of you think what I said isn't true but I promise you this is what our agency sent out to us. I am not sure what the rule is on "copyright" so I won't give out our agencies name just incase it gets me in trouble, but I wanted to share with others what was told to us because there is so much speculation flying around and I thought it would help shed some light on what's happening in China.
(Apperently I wasted my time cause no one wants to believe me anyway LOL!!!)
I have been with our agency for over a year and this is the first email we have recieved. So I take it as pretty serious for them to do that.
I agree that it is going to take years for China to become a first world country so I don't think we are in any great danger of CCAA closing the doors for quite a number of years. However I would not be suprised if it is CCAA's long term intention to fizzle out international adoption and encourage intercountry adoption?
Whether this slowdown is due to the fact that CCAA are trying to discourage internationals or whether it is simply because they don't have enough paper ready children at this time only time will tell.
But I do think we are all smart enough to know CCAA has a plan in the works and have no intention of telling us.
Looks like CCAA has re-updated their website to say the review of August is complete.
ccas says 8/31 again
The Hague Convention on International Adoption does not discourage international adoption. It is a convention to ensure that all such adoptions are done with the best interests of the child in mind and that they conform to a standard protocol. That is all.
Note also that the US is not yet a signatory. Whether China is a first, second, or third world country is not relevant to their international adoption policies. Adoptions between 'first world' countries might be rare, but they happen.
A country that has restrictions on family size and a cultural preference for male children going back thousands of years is unlikely to stop international adoptions of girls in any sort of brief time span.
According to China's 2005 submission to the convention there will be no substantive changes to their current procedures. There will be changes in paperwork and in verification of eligibility for adoption (particularly in light of stories of baby trafficing), but they are all relatively minor changes. China already has a mature and careful adoption program in place.
Just because someone posts doesn't mean they are credible. Question everything you read online. Read up on the convention yourself.
http://www.hcch.net/index_en.php?act=conventions.text&cid=69
So CCAA has updated again to 8/31..does anyone know in the past if that means the referral date will change soon? With LID 6/3, I sure hope it is soon, I cannot take this speculation for much longer!
China just confirmed last week that they have no intention of relaxing or removing birth restriction policies. I doubt IA will stop anyone soon. I hope not, not with so many kids at risk.
"CAN"T WE ALL JUST TRY TO BE POSSITIVE!"
Ok. I'm positive that you don't know how to spell the word positive.
How's that?
I've had it up to HERE with people telling me how to feel. I'm also sick of people pulling the religious card out anytime anyone questions these rumors. "It's God's plan. Trust God."
Yeah, ok, I trust God's plan. I don't think I trust the CCAA's plan. Unless God was suddenly promoted to the head of the CCAA, then please stop lecturing me about your religious take on the world.
Then again what do I know? I'm not a very posssssssitive person right now.
10:45 - i just ignored the religious poster. Luckily there hasnt been much of that here. And hopefully that will be the end of the 'God's plan' stuff. it really has no place here, certainly not today.
My agency just emailed me that God was now the head of the CCAA. I think they posted on their site, but took it down after about 1 minute.
I have a LID of 5/31 and it sucks, I admit it. I spent some time crying my eyes out yesterday when our agency told us that CCAA confirmed to them that the cut off is 5/30. Today I am better though. What can we do but just go on with our lives? I have an 8 year old daughter who I am sure is sick of her parents obsessing over all of the adoption fodder. Who knows how many times I could have been playing cards with her or just chatting instead of wasting time with this? (she's in bed right now). I know it can become an obsession I AM GUILTY OF IT! All I am saying is we can't get lost in this crap. I know you're all sick of the Pollyanna comments, but take it from me, someone who is just as heartbroken as you are, this too shall pass and we are all going to be OKAY. Life for the moment people, what else can we do?
We're doing this for the second time and I'll tell you what I learned the first go-round. No matter how long you are waiting, whether it is 6 months or 16 months, when you are waiting for your child it is plainly too long to wait. I hung on to rumors for dear life but I came to realize how there were the ones posted just to jerk others around - ones posted by people using smaller, less experienced or "connected" agencies - ones posted by someone who heard something from someone somewhere - and then those supposed accurate rumors out of Spain. I'll tell you one thing - as much as everyone said the rumors out of Spain were always accurate, not one was when we were waiting for our first referral.
This site is great in that its fun and gives you a chance to find a little hope and vent some. But it is all about rumors. The things I know to be true are these: there are still thousands of children available for adoptiong in China; it is primarily the money from international adoptions that are funding many, many, many orphanages (which means the Chinese government doesn't have to bother); and that China still is a communist government that does not believe in the free flow of truthful information. There are many political reasons affecting the international adoption process that have nothing to do with dossiers, available children, or the situation in Hunan. These things change over time as will the wait time. There is no reason to think that there is any danger for anyone going thru this process not getting their child or of it stretching out so long that it will be impossible for many of you to do it again. Yes, its frustrating. Yes, it rips your heart out. Yes, there are days you believe that won't survive waiting another day. But I'll tell you - you will because its about your child. And who out there wouldn't do everything and anything for their child even if the only thing we can do right now is wait?
No joke people, it literally says BEFORE July, 31 AGAIN!!!!!
August....July what does that really mean at this point anyway? I mean its great they're reviewing but that doesn't seem to be the 'room' thats causing the problems, seems like the tricky part for them is matching and referring room, huh? Thats where they need to get the show on the road so this all starts MOVING ALONG!!! Ugh.
Does anyone comment here with an actual identity? There are 54 comments and I'd love to know if it's the same four people just having a discussion?
I loved the grocery line analogy, by the way. Good one!
Donna
We here in Europe have had it confirmed that May 30th will be cut off and CCAA website will be updated MOnday.
It really STINKS but it is a DELAY and not a NEVER so we are trying to keep the reaction in perspective.
I know it is hard believe me but it is not OVER.. it will be here just not now.
Just checked the CCAA website at 6:28 a.m. EST -- it says August 31.
I admit, I have been glued to this website for the last week. Don't stone me but I am LID May 27th. This is our 12th Month waiting. We were told the wrong LID in the beginning so , this is our 12th month of waiting. Sometimes I wish I could have just cancelled the whole paperwork and just stayed with what I knew was really going to happen (which wasn't much). Anyway, I am not going to lecture anyone because it is all different for all of us. I will let you know soon if you forget about all the 12 months of waiting once you see your daughter's face.
By the way, 12:22am you posted the most realistic comment that has been posted over the last long week. Thats my humble opinion anyway.
PS It took my husband and I a few days to recover from not being included in the last batch of referrals. In our minds that was it, March was our month and it did not happen AGAIN....
To the 9:43pm person that stated that China has always been a 3rd world country. What are you kiddin' me? Read some history and educate yourself a little bit. Please.... for your daughter's sake.
to Mr. or Mrs. positive at 10:45 -
who is lecturing you about God? I haven't read anything like that on here - but maybe i missed it. Just because someone else believes God is in control doesn't mean they're lecturing you - you're responsible for how YOU take things - but it's so much easier to lash out at other people for stating their own beliefs.
God help me if i spelled something wrong - it might offend you too.
AMEN! to comment 11:20am. It is so true.
Do you think this slowdown may have something to do with the 2008 Beijing Olympics? The fact that China has hundreds of thousands of orphans, and "foreigners" are adopting so many, may be a "black eye" to a society where "saving face" is so important.
Just my 2 yuan!
I think the slowdown has much more to do with Hunan. I think that CCAA is doing a much higher level of "due diligence" on each child to establish that they were legitimately abandoned and not bought or stolen from their birth family. If this is true, then it has probably dramatically slowed the rate at which paper-ready children become "available" (hate that word).
It may also be true that there are just fewer babies being abandoned. The Chinese government has been actively taking steps to educate its population that "girls are just as good as boys" and should be given equal opportunities. I remember a New York times story from last year with a photo of a billboard somewhere in China showing a girl wearing a cap and gown and holding a diploma. I don't think they will change their policies on the number of children a family can have anytime soon, but if fewer girls are being abandoned so that the family can try again for a boy, that is a wonderful achievement by the government.
AMEN as well. You must hate looking at our currency "In God We Trust". That must just kill you. They don't have that on the Chinese currency, I bet.
Thanks for your insight "e"! :)
from 1135
To Becca I mean Donna,
"Does anyone comment here with an actual identity? There are 54 comments and I'd love to know if it's the same four people just having a discussion?"
What a clever idea! Where did you ever get that from? That would probably be a good way of getting the conversation going on a forum too. Wouldn't you think?
I'm confused 12:06pm. What kind of spirituality lies in the face of monatary exchange bills? what are you implying with your comment about Chinese currency? Please clarify
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