And now I have a few things to say
First, to the poster who said that referrals stopped in 2003 because of negative posts on APC - that's balderdash. Things stopped because of SARS, not because of a post on APC.
Second, I have this great fear that when some of you have an 8 year old kid who comes to you distraught over their beginnings, you're going to look at them and say "life's not fair, get over it, it won't help anything at all for you to cry about it".
Please - if you learn nothing else, learn that if someone is having a feeling then it is a valid feeling for them. Just because you can't understand, it doesn't mean it is an invalid feeling, it just means you don't understand it.
I've posted many times that my emotions go up and down through all of this. Today I am numb. No tears, no frustration, just numb.
Tomorrow I may be so mad I can't see straight. Or I may reach a place of calmness with it. But right now... nothing. Maybe that's because I refuse to believe one way or the other until it hits the CCAA site.. maybe it's just because I'm numb. I don't know.
But you know what? When I'm feeling "okay" with the wait, I'm not going to chastise someone who isn't okay with it. I've had my days of being pissed off at the CCAA. Yes, pissed off at them, even though they gave me one of the greatest things in my life, my daughter. I think they are being horribly rude in not giving some kind of timeframe right now. No, they do not owe it to us, but it would still be common courtesy, I think.
If the CCAA could have posted three months ago "April and May were very large months, and we'd like to prepare you that it could possibly take three months to get through each month. June and subsequent months were a bit smaller so we hope to be able to go back to half months when we get to them" - then we'd be able to tell our places of employment something, instead of "we could travel anytime between August of this year and February of next year.. or maybe later, I don't know". Especially when we originally told them it would probably be sometime in May or June when we travelled. It is kind of important to let our employers know when we'll be taking an extended period of time off - they need to be able to make plans. As I said, common courtesy.
The posts about those who are childless going to the front of the line are a bit disconcerting. I mean, I could say I have a child who was originally told (during the homestudy process last year) that she'd have her little sister in time for us to go swimming with her this year and now that isn't going to happen and how do you explain that to a small child? Do you think those with small children should go first so the children aren't disappointed? No, I don't either. We all wait in line (well, except for those of Chinese ancestry).
As for all of the rest of the venting - I have no problem with it. I do think though, that perhaps in the future I should create two posts on days like this - one for rumors and one for venting. That way people who are only interested in the rumors can hit the rumor post, and everyone else can vent away on the other. No need for anyone to apologize for venting up a storm today - we'll see about maybe re-arranging things in the future if we have days like today. I'll let you know what I come up with for a solution when/if I come up with something that seems workable.
posted by RumorQueen at 3/22/2006 07:03:00 PM
51 Comments:
I love you rumor queen!!
As a parent with a 9 year old in tears every night, I thank you...I want info...I appreciate why people need to vent, and sometimes it is comforting to me to see that others are as crazy as me, but for the most part, I just want info. Is May 31 in or out???
Separating the posts would achieve that.
Thanks for all you do
Sars was not an issue at this time frame.
Is there a Yahoo group just for rumors like you have here? If not, maybe someone could start one. I think it's harmless fun or torture depending on how you view it.
7:59 - prove it. Go into the APC archives and tell us which post numbers talk about it. I think you're full of shit. Put up or shut up.
Thanks. This site helped to get me through today. There is comfort in knowing others feel equally distressed. Yes it is out of our control, but feelings still surface and those too are out of our control.
Hugs to you!
Good or bad news it's been a havan for me to come here. Thank you for letting us take over your Blog for a while.
Anonymous at7:59 must be a man (sorry guys) Nice talk, eh? I am new to the site but I think it's harmless reading and like anything else a choice. Keep it coming! I agree it would be nice to be in the loop especially when lives are on hold re: employment but.....
Two posts, one for rumors and one for venting is a great idea.
As it happens, I was waiting in '03 and it was SARS that slowed all down. No referrals or travel approvals went out for weeks. But when things resumed, thats when CCAA picked up the pace and started doing the double month referrals. When we submitted our paperwork, we thought we'd get a referral in Feb '04. Instead, the referral came in Nov '03 and we were home with our daughter in Jan '04.
Sheesh, Rumor Queen! Did you ever think things would get so hot like they did today?!?!
I do hope that tomorrow brings different news, better news. Is this a done deal?
Crying in MN,
LID 6/2
Amen! Enjoying your blog...vents and rumors both!!! Keep it coming.
Bobbi Jo, I think today was just some people venting what they've never really been "allowed" to say on an adoption forum before, and others being shocked to hear this stuff being said out loud.
For those who are completely comfortable with the wait, I'm very happy for you. For those who aren't, the best I can do right now is offer your choice of cyber chocolate or cyber hard liquor.
As for whether this is a done deal... it's starting to not look very good. We have several agencies saying the same bad thing. But, there are also a few agencies who are saying "maybe some of June", so I say it ain't over until the fat lady sings (the fat lady, in this case, being the CCAA site).
7:59pm I feel for you. You sound very angry. Nice lanuage though!
while it is true things were on hold for several weeks due to SARS, the slowdown actually started the year before. The CCAA had a quota for all applicants from DEC2001-DEC2002. There wait was running about 12 months until the CCAA got to the Nov 2001 dossiers. There was a big rush to 'beat the quota' and there were so many dossier it took 4 months to get thru all the Nov DTCs. I know - I was one of them. They finished the nov referrals in April 2003 and then the SARS delay started. So- you are both right! The CCAA did double up months after SARS but this may have had alot to do with the fact that there were fewer dossiers since this was the 'quota year'
Just so everyone knows, NOT everyone of Chinese ancestry is expedited. Only if you or your parents were born in China are you expedited. Since I am a second generation and my husband a fourth generation Chinese American we have just as long a wait as everyone else. Just a vent to get off my chest.
Bring on the hard liquor, Rumor Queen! :)
In late spring of 2003 adoptions shut down because of SARS. Our dossier was most likely in the match room at that time - that's how I know! The good news was when China reopened the CCAA worked very quickly to catch up. The travel group after us actually left the US the same day as us. That situation was different in that the CCAA was waiting to issue referrals not like now wher they are actually issuing as many referrals as they want to in a month.
While adoptions were shut down due to SARS it is repeatedly stated by many agencies that China does not like to be critized on the internet. Venting our emotions is understandable but that is different than critizing. We must rememember it is only recently that the CCAA even started posting info on their website about who has completed reveiw and matching. I think that info is not changed until it has been released to the agencies so that agencies are not receiving second hand info.
Hi Rumor Queen. Just want to give a shout out to the great role you play with this blog. I am so addicted to your site and appreciate your hard work in keeping us informed of the latest rumor breakdown. And I loved this post of yours!
I for one can not thank China enough for giving me this amazing opportunity...lets just keep that in mind.
China is a communist country and can and will do things the way they want to. Why does anyone think the CCAA "owes" us anything by writing a message on their site that would please a few thousand people and show good customer service??
I agree - I thanks China for giving us this opportunity as well.
Apparently I am perhaps too positive as implied on the previous page. Life is what you make of it and how you choose to react to the obstacles that are placed in front of you are entirely up to you.
Im pretty sure the Chinese Government blocks blogs from being viewed in CHina
Are people at the CCAA really reading this blog or the APC board? enthay aybemay eway ouldshay itewray inway igpay atinlay ay!
All I can say is hear, hear..
Your site is a complete addiction (I am checking this before the school run in Europe!).
Tolerance of everyone's feelings is the only way to go. There is no right or wrong way to feel. We are all in this together and need to understand that some of us have good days and loads of us have bad days (esp when we learn that they "may" be only doing 5-6 days of LIDs.
Please keep this site up for those of us coming after you...how will we cope?????????????
Thanks for posting the rumors!!! It is a great way to get a quick run down of what is being said.
I will say that the wait is not that easy for me but I try my best to keep a level head. In my rational mind I can completely understand the slowdown and I can even understand where the time frames are coming from, on the flip side my emotional side is going crazy. At least three times a day I am asked by students or co-workers why I don't have a baby.
Thank you for at the least giving me a rumor that I can tell them instead of just breaking into tears.
the 10:59 anon said
> Life is what you make of it
> and how you choose to react
> to the obstacles that are
> placed in front of you are
> entirely up to you.
You are right. We can't change others, we can only change ourselves. We get to decide how we react to things.
Tears are okay, if tears are the choice you want to make. Being numb is okay, as long as you are aware that it is your choice to be numb, not just something that happened.
Even denial is okay, as long as you are aware you are making that choice.
When we were waiting in 2001 -02 for our first daughter I thought letting childless people go to the front of the line was a good idea. I had no conception of what a nightmare it would be to have to tell your 4 year old daughter again and again and again that No, we're not getting a photo of your little sister yet. Maybe next month. Which might as well be NEVER for her.
Just saying.
No matter now many stories of sad big-sisters-to-be you all trot out,it still does not make me feel worse for you than for a childless couple at this time. it just doesn't.
Anon 11:27 #2 -- you are HILARIOUS! What is that, pig latin? They will never catch us now!
Amen 8:49!!!!!
8:49 and 9:16
No one is expecting you to feel sorry for the upset older siblings to be. We know you've got your own stuff to deal with. Just saying, next time your perspective will be different (you may still think childless couples should jump to the front or you may not, but your perspective will be different).
While I don't have a sad big sister story, since my daugher still thinks sisters are "Yuck-dee", I do remember how much the first wait hurt. I was coming off a year of miscarriages, one of which I had done bedrest to try to prevent. Then SARS hit and we were afraid China would close. Then it did. So I know the pain of waiting, and tragedy trying to become a mom.
The pain of a longer wait this time is still there.
And there's really no need for a pain contest, we all hurt. What difference does it make who hurts more?
Sounds like some people just want to "trot" to the front of the line, waving their "I don't have a baby!" banner. Your argument could be countered by those who could say that having a proven, positive parenting record ought to bump you to the front of the line. Not advocating it. Just pointing it out.
Rumor Queen -- Thanks for all you do!! Some days it is the only thing that keeps me sane- I need info. bogus or not -- atleast it's something. It helps me to know that there are people out there as crazed as I am. My husband belongs to the "waiting for the right child" group. Most days I agree with him but some days I want to slug him. Like when GWCA sent us the e-mail telling us we could wait another 6 months! UGH
8:49 and 9:16 - I've got to tell you that I remember feeling the same way when I waited for my first daughter. I still feel that for ME, the wait is much easier this time. I am already a mother, which makes a HUGE difference. What I didn't anticipate this time is having this little 4 year old that I love more than life itself, and having to watch her be disappointed. It's no small thing to watch your child be sad. I hadn't even considered this aspect the first time around.
10:12, I think a lot of people here who don't already have kids have dealt with some sort of infertility issue. So it's clearly not their own choice that they don't have a "proven, positive, parenting record." Your statement was very negative and hurtful in it's tone. It was a hateful thing to say.
I LOVE these people who think the CCAA is some mystical, numinous, spiritual entity and we should "be grateful". Excuse me; did you not hire an agency? Are you not paying enormous amounts of money for a service? Last I checked the Communist run CCAA was not searching for loving families to place a child out of the goodness of their hearts.
Stop romanticizing it and look at this for what it is - a business. Do some research and I believe you'll discover rarely do the orphanage contributions go to the orphanage. If you want a reality check, go to Amnesty International.
This is a Communist Country not known for its human rights! And while I'm sure the nannies and foster families love the children (thank God!) to the government, it's a source of revenue. Don't kid yourself.
Look the Chinese culture is incredibly complex and beautiful. Its people are generous and loving but the politics - and this is what we're dealing with here - are ugly and we're doing disservice to ourselves and our future children to think otherwise.
10:30, you misunderstood me. I was attempting to point out that we can divide people up anyway you choose, currently parenting ,waiting to parent, however, and everybody will have some valid point as to why their situation is the most unjust or painful. That was not an attack on people who've suffered with infertility. My sister does. Geez.
Now, let me state my point succinctly: everybody hurts, and everybody deserves to see their adoption comes to a joyful conclusion.
Many of you think one group of people or another are more or less deserving to be first in line based on a variety of life circumstances and pain levels. Being as how I'm the analytical type, I thought I'd apply a mathematical formula to my situation:
I already have a child (-2 points). And he's biological! (+1 for it being a boy, -2 for him being bio). I have suffered from dire secondary infertility for 4.5 years (+ 4.5 points). I had 7 IUIs (+7 points) and no IVFs because not enough insurance (+2 points for sympathy). I have had 2 miscarriages (+ 2 points). I did get my LID just 3 days after my DTC, how lucky is that! (-3 points because that ticks people off). I have great company benefits helping cover nearly all of the adoption (oooh, -10 points for jealousy factor). I have a sister who at some subconscious level rubs it in my face every freaking day that she can get pregnant and I cannot (anymore) (+8 points for having to deal with THAT.) My close and dear friends have produced a total of 17 children (all first month trying, OF COURSE) since we've been trying for #2 (+ 17 points). I am adopting from China because I truly believe God put the idea in my heart; it felt different from any other family-building concept we had considered, including IF treatment (+5 points if you're a believer, -5 if you think it's a crock, which I know a lot of you do, so I'll call it a wash - 0 points).
I think every woman deserves a point for every time someone stuck a dildo-cam up her cooter to see if she had any follicles growing (about +35 points for me).
So when you add ALL that up, it puts me in line (::: calculating :::) right in front of you.
I am SO being anonymous for this one.
10:45, you are my hero(ine)!!
10:12/10:39, this is 10:30. I am sorry if I misundertood you. You're right, we all hurt here and we all want a successful adoption. I guess it was the way you worded your comment that struck a nerve with me. I just think it was a poor choice of words, that's all.
10:45 - now that was funny.
But as BArbie says, math is hard, so I'm not even going to attempt it.
10:45 - I love your sense of humor and your attitude. I applied your formula to my life and here's what I came up with:
I already have a daughter (+10 points)(-3 because she's watching t.v. right now while I write this) Belong to 20 Yahoo groups (+20 for listening to all of the negativity, but -5 because I mostly just lurk). Waited 13 months for our first referral (+13 points, but -5 because for some reason it ticks people off to hear that people before them have had long waits and lived to talk about it.) Joined a quilt square exchange ( +10 points, -5 because 4 years later they're still just squares and I have no idea how to quilt.) Stayed at the White Swan for our whole time in China last time (-10 points for not having to "rough it"). Managing to keep a fairly positive attitude even though this wait is frustrating ( +10, but -3 because this also ticks people off for some reason). Haven't finished saving for adoption trip (-10 points). Keep buying baby clothes from EBay (-5 points because of above). AND, the final thing that will put my points over the top is that I decorated my daughter's room with ladybugs, which is in the China Adoption Bylaws ( +50 points ).
I have no idea what this adds up to, but surely it should get me to China sometime in 2006.
10:45 that was so FUNNY... I laughed out SOOOO loud!!! I used to called it the "Trojan Cam" cause they very courteously cover the "dildo-cam" with a condom before use. I'm still laughing... and that is so much better than yesterday when I was so mad I wanted to throw my mouse through the monitor!
I want to do the math too, but I'm not funny! You guys sure are. Plus I'd lose. I'm only sorry for myself because I don't know what size clothes to buy! Just kidding, I'm not that shallow. I love this blog, but I'd love to see some good news for a change.
LID Nov 21
Hhmmm...applying this fuzzy math stuff I am pleased to say I get to go to the front of the line:
- infertile for years (I want refunds on the unnecessary condems and pregnancy tests)
- dying dog (yep, she's weezing next to me on the couch right now)
- my shower is in 2 weeks :( (When we planned it we picked April because of course we would have heard by then - that's 10 months!)
- just realized that the summer dresses I bought won't get used (okay, not a crisis but still makes me so sad)
So, excuse me, pardon me, I'm going to the front!
Well, I have been reading the site for the first time over the last few days and all I have seen so far is a groupof women who should consider themselves bonded by something increadible, cut each other down. Disappointing. I'd rather stay in the dark about what's goind on with the wait than to be a part of this!
Well, I have been reading the site for the first time over the last few days and all I have seen so far is a groupof women who should consider themselves bonded by something incredible, cut each other down. Disappointing. I'd rather stay in the dark about what's goind on with the wait than to be a part of this!
5:00 (twice)
Well, if that's all you saw, you must only be reading about every other post.
Because I saw some really upset people, some people trying to comfort, and some people trying to lighten the mood.
Those with chinese ancestry (who, as the above poster mentioned, meet the criteria) wait in line too. Make no mistake. The wait is a bit shorter, and why not?
If it wasn't for the Chinese government's one child policy... none of us would be here. How fair is that?
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