My opinions
Ya'll have brought up some interesting points.
Usually I just report rumors and maybe make a judgement on how reliable it may be.
I think it's time to make a list of the conclusions that I have personally come to.
- I do believe that May 31st is big. I don't remember where the original rumor came from -but we also have several polls that show us this. The spreadsheet that the June DTC group put together also shows a lot for May 31st (compared to the other days). I can look at the original tonight and see what agencies those numbers are from.
- I think some of you are looking for one thing that has caused the slow down, and I believe this slow down is caused from a variety of factors. Someone (don't remember who, sorry) called it a "perfect storm", and that term just may fit.
- I think that there are more parent dossiers. But, I think this is a small part of the problem.
- I think they are receiving less paperwork from the SWI's. There are many reasons thrown around about why this might be, no one seems to be 100% sure of the reason. We have ascertained that there are plenty of babies available, just not paper ready babies.
- I think that when the CCAA took over extra responsibilities last fall they had trouble redistributing the workload.
- I think the Hunan situation has also contributed to the slowdown, for a variety of reasons.
- I believe that less babies are being referred every month than were being referred per month last year. I have no hard data on this, but it's my belief. I would love to see a quarterly report from the State Department, but in the past they've only done their report at year end. It's also possible that less babies are being referred to the U.S. and more are being referred to other countries, giving the appearance to us in the U.S. that less babies are being referred.
- I don't know when they will get back to doing what they were doing. If they ever will.
- I also believe that if they want the program to continue they must do something, soon, to fix this. They should be proud to be considered the "standard" in how international adoptions should be conducted. I hope they were proud of this, and I hope they work to regain that reputation. If that means they need to put another quota system in then so be it. The current situation is untenable. Families need to have more of a window to be able to give their places of employment. We should ideally have no more than a three month window that we could possibly travel within.
- If they indeed do not want the program to continue for much longer then they should continue doing what they are doing - being unpredictable and nonresponsive.
- If they do May 31st alone at the end of this month then I will assume that it is going to take four months to get through June.
- If they do through the 2nd then I will assume it will take three and a half months to get through June.
- If they do through the 7th then I will assume it will take two and a half months to get through June.
- If they do through the 10th then I will assume that it will take two months to get through June.
- If they do through the 15th then I will assume they will get through July 11th on the next batch.
posted by RumorQueen at 4/06/2006 10:43:00 AM
59 Comments:
I hear you Rumor Queen. This whole experience is getting to be a bit much on my poor nerves. Being the type of personalitly that strives for order as well, it is pure torture on me. One reason we chose China was because of it's predictable and reliable program. I want to be a mother sooo bad it it killing me:(
I loved this post RQ, and thank you for addressing the 'praising the ccaa' issue, it's been driving me nuts.
I'm never sure whether the phrase is 'hear hear" or 'here, here' so i'll say ' hear, here' RQ!"
I think things are going to start to pick up -- the CCAA is coming to one of the big agencies (and maybe more) in the near future. I'm having a hard time believing they are willing to come out for a meet and greet unless they can say that things are starting to look up for all of these parents. That would be very courageous of them to show up around the time they send one day's worth of LID! I think it will go through at least June 7th, if not the 10th.
Very well said RQ!!!
I think the CCAA could care less what your opinion is and how it should be done---really rumors are one thing and your sight was fun, but now you are obsessed with your role as queen. The Chinese can open and close adoption as they choose and their own time frame. You knew this when you started if you had done your research, so what is the big shock with the slowdown?
Please ignor 2nd anon 12:17....sounds like a bitter, vicious person. You are doing a wonderful job on this blog, I look forward to reading it every day. And you have a right to vent. We are LID 6/23/2005 and are quite upset with the change in refferal times and they seem to be stretching. Again, thanks for the blog
I am so with you on this. They INDEED CAN predict. They have known for 10 months how big may and june are. They can find out from the providing orphanages how many babies will be paper ready, and then let the families know where they stand. Although I dont believe they will-- as I personally dont buy into the "not enough paper ready babies." I feel this is an intentional slow down for who the heck knows why .But I am sure it is to "save face" for some reason(2008 olympics 'abandonded babies are no longer a problem in china, the number of adoptions has dropped drastically')All the while the orphanages bulge at the seams. I dont blame the CCAA I blame those above them.
As for 12:17 we are not citizens of China we still get to express our opinion. And mine is that all we are asking is for commuinication. I think everyone would accept whatever they say but instead they say NOTHING.
I also agree that thinks should start to pick up. I also agree that China is proud that it runs a predictable and reliable program. I also think a $3,000 cash adoption fee for I think you said 48,000 familes comes to quite a number. $144,000,000.00 Thats alot of Cash that who knows where it goes!!
2nd 12:17 - I never said I thought the CCAA cared about my opinions. It's my blog, my opinions. I sincerely hope they aren't wasting time surfing the internet but are instead matching babies and parens up into families.
I very clearly labled this post that these are my OPINIONS. I very clearly stated at the top that this post was not about rumors, but about the conclusions I've reached. It is my blog, I was assuming I could post my opinions on it every once in a while. I'm sorry I forgot to check with you first. Oh, I forgot, you're anonymous, I couldn't have checked with you.
RQ, ignore the bitter Anon posting. I am so glad you posted my exact same feelings about the CCAA. All I hear is how grateful we should be for them allowing us to adopt. But we have invested a lot of time and emotional energy in our adoptions, and we deserve answers. It's crazy that we even need to have a rumor blog (as much as I do enjoy your blog). CCAA should be more forthcoming with information. Almost everyday friends and family are asking me when I'll be getting a referral. My LID is 09/29/05 and I have to keep telling them that I have no clue. What kind of way is that to run an adoption program? Thanks for letting me vent!!
If there is any other country or domestic program that gives you news, updates and the status of dossiers reviewed and matched like the CCAA does on its website, I'd like to know about it. Yes, the slowdown stinks. But, as far as I can tell, China is still the only program that offers such a site - which to me means, they are still very responsive, reliable and predictable (in the actual process, not the timeframe). I don't think you can say they've lost their reputation of being a leader because the wait has slowed down for the last 6 months. What other program would you go to now if you were starting over?
The problem is that if you look at the last six months then they are coming to an almost standstill. I don't think we can call three business days a mere slowdown. Five days when they used to do 31 days at a time means they did about 15% of what they would need to do to keep the status quo. That is scary. And scary does not make for a good adoption program.
And the website seemed like a good thing, but when they don't change it until after referrals arrive it doesn't tell us much. I did very much appreciate it on the months that it was changed before they arrived though.
Same with the review room, it's nice to have official notice, but we know long before they post it that a month is in the review room.
I don't know the details of the other countries because I haven't investigated them. But I know several people who are investigating them. People who have already adopted from China and always assumed that would be where they would return. But now they are not.
Okay, so I'll make on "apologize for the CCAA" comment myself.
The way the CCAA is running things is perfectly par for the course for the way government agencies operate in China. To their way of thinking they are not being rude or unresponsive.
I've been in China enough that I really do understand that. I think the CCAA is probably very caring and conscientious.
I just wish they would communicate to us what is going on, in direct words, with time frames.
And I really do think that they are quickly losing their great reputation. You don't have to agree with me. You know what they say about opinions.
Like others out there I "lived" the extending wait of 2001-2003. If anyone says that the situation we are in now is like that - they don't remember. This is by far worse on the nerves! The wait then lengthened more from time between referral batches than a reduction of # of LIDs referred. Therefore you pretty much knew (unless you were in the end of month cusp dates for your LID) exactly how many more batches were in front of you. It grew longer but it WAS predictable. And I knew from my third month of waiting that I had a total of 12.5-14 months to go. I can't think of anything predictable about this current situation. I do believe there are fewer NSN children that are paper ready and available for referral. I do believe that CCAA is referring all the children that are available for them to refer internationally. I do believe there is an uptick in domestic adoptions and that domestic adoptions are CCAA's priority. This wait still is lousy and doing nothing for my health (there goes all the weight I lossed through stress eating!) RQ - I agree that this is hard on entire families and extended families - it sure is for mine. It is especially hard on the future siblings.
"But right now they are holding 45,000 or so people in emotional bondage"
LOL LOL LOL!!!! Oh, wait - you're serious? Good grief. I think you need to change your name to DRAMA QUEEN! “Emotional bondage” **shaking head and laughing** Get a grip, woman!
Has anyone dared to contact the CCAA through their "email us" link on their website? RQ? I know no one would want to risk their adoption by being nosey, but for crying out loud - why put the email link on the site if they didn't expect someone to use it. I honestly am beginning to think that most agencies are scared to tell their clients what they "really" think and they don't know anything more than we do. The China-only agencies have got to be worried.
1:20 If you don't have your emotions tied up in this adoption. If you couldn't possibly care less whether it happens or not, then perhaps you should not be adopting.
RQ-
I hope you delete Anon 1:20. I think someone needs to head back over to APC with their like kind.
You blog all you want, RQ. This is YOURS.
Shana
I really am upset when we started the paperchase referrals were at 6 months. I don't know how much more my nerves can take. Maybe this isn't a good idea for me. Waiting for a year seems hard to accept.
RQ I couldn't agree with you more. What amazes me is that anyone has the nerve to read someone's personal blog and then post a rude comment simply because they don't agree? Now that is something to really shake your head at and laugh! I mean both of the people who posted rude comments need to bloody well screw right off!!! If I do say so myself, and I do:)
Very well stated 12:17 poster.
"I think that there are more parent dossiers. But, I think this is a small part of the problem."
-How could the fact that there are more parent dossiers be only a “small part of the problem” as you suggest? What concrete knowledge do you have or are these just emotions you’re expressing?
"I think they are receiving less paperwork from the SWI's. There are many reasons thrown around about why this might be, no one seems to be 100% sure of the reason. We have ascertained that there are plenty of babies available, just not paper ready babies."
-Can you be more specific here? Why do you think this? Who has “ascertained” this? Are they a trusted source? Do you even have a source?
"I think that when the CCAA took over extra responsibilities last fall they had trouble redistributing the workload."
-Is it simply the delay that makes you think this or do you have any concrete information?
"I think the Hunan situation has also contributed to the slowdown, for a variety of reasons."
-What are the variety of reasons and where did you get them?
"I believe that less babies are being referred every month than were being referred per month last year. I have no hard data on this, but it's my belief."
-Based upon… what?
"I don't know when they will get back to doing what they were doing. If they ever will."
-Did your agency not express the evolving process inherent in international adoption? It has not always been quick; it has not always been without its problems; it has not been always predictable and reliable – whoever suggested this was wrong.
"I also believe that if they want the program to continue they must do something, soon, to fix this. They should be proud to be considered the "standard" in how international adoptions should be conducted. I hope they were proud of this, and I hope they work to regain that reputation."
-Some of us who read this site (who you’ve suggested to go elsewhere) don’t share your view 100% of the time and believe the CCAA to still BE the standard. Further, it’s irrational to not want to allow (or even to invite) alternate viewpoints. What is so threatening about another angle? There’s a big difference between “praising the CCAA” and blaming them based upon what is little more than your personal feelings based upon rumors that rarely turn into hard fact. The problem when you rant like this, RQ, is that you portray an inability to find any commonalities in opposing viewpoints. Essentially, the adoption community version of our current Administration. Do yourself a favor: listen to another point of view. If nothing else, you'll grow from it. I mean, seriously, what's the point in having a blog if all you want is for everyone on it to keep saying "here, hear" in perfect unison?
One final word to those who want to sing the CCAA's praises to us - start your own blog if you aren't happy with what is being said over here.
-see above. Here’s the quote I was referring to
I completely agree with 12:26, as a matter of fact, she/he said it better than I could have! I don't buy this "not enough paper ready" children. It may be a small part of the problem, but only a small part. The Chinese government is more concerned with politics and saving face than they are with their children. Let's all remember how little human life is valued by this government.
There is a world of difference between not caring at all, and not making yourself loopy trying to control what you cannot control. Guess I’m more of a “Que Sera Sera” kind o’ gal. I’d rather spend my time enjoying the child I have instead of obsessing over the one I will have.
And yes, obviously I do care or I wouldn’t be here! I’ll be back. All your “Mama Drama” is good for a chuckle if nothing else!
1:47
Please try and keep in mind some of us don't have that privledge. Not all of us have children already so this time is a little more difficult for some of us not to obsess over!
RQ-
I have to disagree with some of your opinions/predictions. I don't think that we can any longer make predictions based on past performance or comparing the size of the differnt LID groups each month. I really think that CCAA has a political agenda and has in thier minds a particular time frame (12 mos, 14 mos, etc.). I think that they will send out referrals in such a way to meet that agenda, not based on number of babies available or dossiers waiting.
I used to really think that we could figure it out from the numbers -- polls, membership in DTC groups, etc. etc. But those numbers aren't making sense so there must be some sort of factor that we can't see.
Somewhat off subject but has anyone been able to load the CCAA page? I have tried a few times this week as I remembered they posted an open letter in the update or news section of the page sometime in Nov 2005 regarding the length of time processing. I was trying to remember if they stated that the slowdown then was due to lack of babies or paper ready babies. I was trying to verify if they had started that portion of the "rumor". If anyone has had luck or remembers that letter I would be interested to know what it said.
MMO lid 6/3
Funny, I started all this, just saying that I didn't think the CCAA had negative intentions in this slowdown. I was shocked and hurt by the negativity of the community to what I viewed as a neutral truth and uncontroversial. I was most hurt by RQ herself lashing out at me. I had to go to the school and listen to my reading buddy read to me, and the whole time, I just thought, wow, I had no idea these people HATED. I thought this was just all entertainment while we wait for a process that none of us, none of this, can control. And while I have tremedous emotion over the whole thing, I know, and I know that the RQ knows as well, from all of her other tremedous postings, that while emotions might rule the minute, they should never rule the day. But based on the whoopping I took at the hands of everyone, I thought I was all alone in my thoughts. I felt really terrible, the whole time I was gone. So, now I return and am pleasantly surprised that when I came back (1) RQ had said some things that I think were less emotional and inline with my only real message, that this isn't on purpose and the CCAA has a program they are proud of and are doing what they believe to be correct, regardless of how we might see it and (2) others picked up my message and carried it forward with a verve I would never have dared display. Go team. What a great community and a great forum. We are all in this together. We are all distraught and desperately want to find a way to control this. We all want our families to be whole and the holes to be filled. So we wait together and exchange stories of how it might be better.
I agree with you Rumor Queen. This is an emotional bondage. Not only is it emotional but it is truely life changing. My husband was offered an administrative job out of state (would have been great for our family.) But, we had to turn it down because we would have had to almost start all over on our paperwork(dossier) to move out of state at this stage in the game. The most important thing to me right now is this adoption so we declined the job offer because we would have to do so much in such a "short" amount of time or do we even know for sure how long. So, yes I agree with you it is very emotional and life altering experience.
Out of state. we moved out of state, and and hardly had to do anything over. We moved after we were LID, but before referral, and just had to have a 1 page update of our homestudy, which took like 1 hour wiht the SW and 2 weeks, and $300. Nothing else. Nothing. did you check into this? We asked our agency, and they said as long as you move between LID and referral, it's pretty simple (GWCA) I understand the constraint as well. I'm in a job I hate, but am waiting to quit/change jobs until we are home from China. So, I say, come on china!
My opinion is that we can analyze things to death about referrals and analyze various, but it will make us crazy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy RQ and her blog, but try not to believe everything. Some of us are so consumed with finding patterns depicting future referral waiting, but perhaps there is no pattern. The wait is driving me crazy. Luckily, I have daughter #1 from China to keep me busy. Her referral was only 6 months. I really feel for all you first-time parents, it must be even more difficult :(
I agree 1:47.
Thanks for posting that. We are all in the same boat and are frustrated by the longer wait time rumors. But it is especially hard on those of us that don't have any children at all to fill our days with joy..
For those of you already parents yor are soo.. oo lucky but please don't forget how hard it is on those of us DYING to be a first time mothers. It's been a very long road for us:(
I guess I'll have to focus all my time on my dog. That is the closest thing I have to a child right now. That's the cold, hard truth!!
Did you see RQ's posting on how to prep your dog, on her other blog?
To both 2:07's-
I hear ya! As another first time Mom-to-be, I agree 100%, I sure wish I already had another child to keep me busy. This wait and lack of information is quickly driving me to my breaking point, wondering if I will EVER become a mother. It really sucks!!!
It's been a long hard road for me too, we could compare wounds for sure. But I'm the one here selling sunshine. Not that there isn't mourning and despair, there is and it's black as night. But don't fall prey to it. This is a great opportunity that China gives us, and if we wait a little, we wait a little. I have looked at every program, every program several times again in the last couple weeks, and there is still no program faster than China, except Vietnam (which just opened) and Ethiopia, which we actually didn't consider the first time. That's it, every other program is in my opinion less desirable than the china program, just as long or longer wait, more expensive, more time in country, more time knowing about your child without being able to have your child. I have done the work so I wouldn't buy into the rumor that "there are other better programs" and "if you would have chosen almost any other program you'd have your child by now". this is just what it takes. I just talked to a gal who is adopting from Russia, and they puchased their plane ticket (for their first trip over) and the gov't called it off at the last minute, with no info and no ETA of when they'll pick it up. That isn't better or worse, just saying things can be heartbreaking all over the place. You are where you are, and you will get what you came for, we all will.
One more word to all you folks who are only beating your chest on behalf of your need for order and your employer's need to know. Phoey. Except for a few rare instances where folks truely have no flexibility, they will have plenty of time when you tell them. What if you were pg and had to be out on bed rest. How much notice would they get. You are making up drama at that point. Don't make this harder on yourself than you have to.
Wow Sebago girl. Sounds like a dram come true!! I'm so happy for you. To me this is painful and I do think, "Oh, this isn't going to work either, what have I done.", but it is all more manageable to me than the infertility, because I don't have to turn my anger on myself and my body and I do believe that slow or slower, china will come through. Whereas the IVF, etc was a crap shoot. Just different perspectives, I'm sure there are 30 more. Waiting for baby #1 as well.
2:24
Thanks soo much for the kind words. I really appreciate the encouragement. I know totally what you mean by going through failed infertility treatments with no success and now wondering "will it ever happen, will I be a Mom?"
It is one of the biggest emotional rollercoasters I have been on besides our infertility treatments.
I find myself several times a day dreaming of being a Mom and all the things we will teach our daughter and all the holidays, seasons. So much love to give. I feel like my heart is going to explode!!! I have wanted a child forever and I have soo much love waiting for her it drives me crazy!!
2:23 - My office is more than understanding when it comes to this wait, but there are projects and events I'm in charge of over the next six months. We're having to have at least one other person in on all the planning because I may or may not be here.
So, yes, a little consideration would be nice - not just for me or my boss, but for my coworkers who are essentially bystanders in this process. And, no, I'm not beating my chest or being dramatic.
No consideration in this process, no consideration if you happened to get pregnant and then had to go on full bed rest, no consideration if you were in an accident and hositalized. Just the breaks. Never was an expectation of consideration in the process. go when you are told to go, jump when you are told to jump. faulty assumption. Sorry.
Why are there so many hurtful Anons posting? Please don't tell me that we're being drama queens just because we're having difficulty with the waiting. And please don't tell us that are employers will understand and that this is similar to being on sudden bed rest. It's not the same, and you don't know any of our employers. My employer will need to hire a temp when I am in China, and I will need to train that temp prior to leaving, so yes, my employer does need some notice. My boss has asked me several times when I will get my referral. It's sad to keep saying "I don't know", especially since with #1 the wait was somewhat predictable at 6 months.
So, to all you Anons that are telling us that we're being "drama queens", knock it off. We're entitled to feel how we feel. After suffering through multiple miscarriages, infertility, failed IVF's, etc., you can bet that I am frustrated with the waiting. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings.
Anon 2:23 PM
That reasoning works for the mothers but what about the fathers? They don't have the luxury of "bed rest". My DH has passed up so many job offers (& he's an independent contractor) b/c they should have run in to when we would be in China but alas, we're still not there so this is $$ flying right out the window...
I don't think any of us mean to be "hurtful", sometimes all this silliness is just hard for people to take. We all are hurting, but there was never any promise of things being stable timewise. Never any promise of 6 month notice or anything. Realisitically, you should have 2 - 3 months notice, and that should be enough for a lot of people, and for the ones where it's not, that's a bad deal, but you had to know it was going to be a bit of a bad deal/risk going in. If not, your agency didn't prep you fully. I mean, just crazy silly to let these things make you upset.
I agree with Anon 1:52.
From what I've learned about the Chinese...and the Chinese government (re: chinese history) is that if they get it set in their minds and processes that they are going to do something (i.e. stick to around 12month or so match time) then they bloody-well will find a way to do it.
Given the situation now, lack of communication with CCAA, longer wait, changes within CCAA...would you recommend China to a perspective adoptive family? Since we began this process (Feb. 2005) several people have approached us about pursuing adoption. Up until November I was praising China and it's stability, etc..., but now I find myself hesitating to recommend China. I've recently encouraged someone to choose an agency that deals with several countries and NOT choose a China only agency. Opinions?
Absolutely and without hesitation. Just tell them, as with any program, just like with infertility treatments, just like with trying the natural way month after month, the wait time from start to finish can ebb and flow, expand and contract. Stay flexible, and don't get set on any one date, don't plan too far ahead. I think China's program is still one of the best out there, again, after having reevaluated all the programs in just the last two weeks. There are other great programs too, it just depends what things are the most important factors, which country is a good choice for each couple, but there aren't many more stable, more affordable, with higher quality children (health wise). Think how stable China's program is, yes, it is slow, but it is orderly, they haven't exceeded their own information yet ( they said 10 - 12 months, and it hasn't gone past it yet). It is still great. GREAT. What an opportunity. I have talked to so so so many families approaching international adoption after failed infertility treatments and after failed domestic adoption(s) - and I have never talked to anyone who has had a failed china adoption, or even an issue like other countries where they get stuck in the process, have a referral but can't get to the kid because the gov't changes or becomes unstable. I mean, if something were to happen (and I'm not saying it is even a rumor that it could,), but if you took China out of the international adoption picture all together, I can't imagine the 1000's and 1000's of couples who wouldn't find an international adoption program that worked for them, and wouldn't be able to grow their family through international adoption.
3:56, oh, considering whats happened over the last few months, i would definitely choose an agency that deals with other countries too... that is one thing i would have done differently. i am with one of the biggies, and they are a china-only agency which is the ONLY thing i regret since they are great.
i would seriously have considered jumping ship to vietnam if i was with a different agency. i have at least 10 months to wait. and we always tend to think that impatience causes people to make a dramatic country-switch, but countries can totally shut down (yes, even china) or our wait time could go to 24 months...in those cases, i'd really want to option to switch...we'd be out too much money and time if we did though...
What if you are with an everything agency, and you wait and wait, and then decide to jump ship, and then Vietnam slows down. Then what? That would be very heartbreaking.
3:56 poster:
I, for one, would highly recommend China even in light of the extended wait. The key is to take the rumors for what they are and to hopefully find a nugget of truth in the things that you read on sites such as this. I speak to many people who have adopted from China (many of whom waiting 24+ months to get their little girls) and at the end of the day everyone is smiling. The wait is hard, frustrating and very much worth it. And by the way, if the wait were only 8 months, I believe I'd be complaining after 6 months that I've been waiting too long. The good agencies will recommend what you should do with this waiting time -- for the most part I am treasuring this time. It may be good to try an agency that offers international adoption from several countries as they're probably more likely to understand the climate in each. But trust me, all the negative vibe you may read here or elsewhere are from people (many of whom will be in China at the same time) who will all stand beside each other at the White Swan hotel laughing and crying in happiness as we're united with our little ones.
I think it is potentially a good idea, if time to possession is the highest factor on your list (it wasn't that high on mine, health, cost, time in country were all higher) to go with an agency that offers the flexibility to change course midstream. good advice, without saying anything negative about any country's program, as any country can slow down. We actually started assuming we'd go to Kazakhstan, and then they had an issue where parents were getting stuck in country (after 6 weeks already in country) because the gov't wouldn't approve the kids visa's on any specific timeline. It was right before we paid our full money to move ahead. We moved to the China program at that point, and I'm glad we did.
I shout out agreement with the 4:14 poster. I was thinking that earlier. All these people who are hating the CCAA and letting their emotions rule their lives, and I'll be standing shoulder to shoulder with them in China (very likely). How will I tell them, crazy from sane? Kidding! We are all a little crazy, no doubt. :)
This has been such a fun and interesting day on RQ's blog. Thanks to everyone, it is just great to share this, and not have to just absorb it independently. I know I certainly have no one else to really "understand" they way all of you do, since we are all going through it at the same time. Hopefully, tomorrow won't be exciting, and I'll get more things done than just blog! Ha Ha.
you know, i cannot believe how attacking and rude some of these posts are. "obsessed with your role as queen?" Obviously from someone who already has a child, and who has a very fragile ego and is jealous of the attention you get.
i too wish the "nasties" would head back to APC where that sort of thing is appreciated. this blog is the best thing going, and i ony hope we can presuade you to continue after you make your family whole later this year.
by the way, anonymous is an option, if i had something to say that was a critique or constructive comment, i wouldn't need to use "anon" to do it. people who post "nasty" and do it as "anon" are cowards.
please keep going RQ :) hang tough for us!
dianne
4:11 - Yes countries can totally shut down, even China, but has China? I mean Vietnam did. I know that Russia has. I know that South America is notoriously unstable over time. But has China really just shut down? When we bombed their embassy (ACCIDENT!) it stayed open. I mean 9/11 and SARS were totally understandable, and that was very temporary.
to 2:23 pm poster:
actually, depending on your job, it can be very difficult. i am an adjunct professor. all my schools know i am adopting because they wrote dossier letters for me. if i tell them i am expecting to go to china for two weeks in a certain semester they will simply not hire me for that semester. and they want to know, because they know i need to go. they just assigned me my fall classes now, but they did it only because i told them i wouldn't be going until the spring.
if i am able to get them to hire me the semester i am going, they will be really angry when i tell them i need at least 2 weeks off, because it is impossible to get subs, and without subs they don't meet their classroom hour requirements and they lose funding over it and have angry students and disrupted learning and a lot of other stuff, so, depending on how annoyingly they view it, they may not hire me back after that. at best i could lose a semester's worth of $, around 15000. worst case scenario this could ruin our finances and make me forced to find a job in another field as there are a limited number of places to work in this field.
why is it so hard for people to imagine that there are people who it is really hard for in terms of their jobs?
and why is it so hard to imagine that there are people for whom this is really hard emotionally?
my friends are throwing me a shower in july of this year, which my mother doesn't even want to be a part of or invite family too because she is convinced that we aren't really going to get a child. the date uncertainty has her totally freaked. she is sure i am going to lose my money and get my heart broken, and she doesn't want to be embarrassed in front of family. now, obviously my mom has issues, but that is the way she feels, she doesn't understand the whole thing, and it is stressful.
people are afraid to talk to us about it because they know we have no answers. i feel like we have cancer sometimes.... it's the elephant in the room.
and i understand how people feel, and i try to explain it clearly to everyone, but it is difficult.
i don't understand how some people, especially those who are adopting from a foreign nation, could have so little imagination or empathy.
it reminds me of when we were trying to get pregnant and everybody just kept telling us to relax and stop trying, it would just "happen."
please, as you expect us to be cool about the wait and uncertainty while you enjoy the biological or adopted child you already have, try to stretch out your mind to see with another's eyes and feel with another's heart.
dianne
Dianne,
Some of the sunshine posts appear to be coming from agency personell. They are just looking out for their bottom dollar.
Don't let them get to you.
4:29, 4:11 here -- To my knowledge china has never shut down, except during SARs and 9/11. But CAN they shut down? of course, any country can. And as you pointed out, many of them have. I am pretty optimistic about getting my baby in about a year, but i still wouldn't put China in some kind of protected category where a shut down is something i would never ever expect. really, nothing would surprise me anymore!
Wow Dianne, you are not unique. I am sure there are many folks here, inlcuding me who doesn't have a child, who have failed miscarriages (5), who has failed IVF (1), who have failed domestic adoptions (none for me, but others I know do). I have all the same feelings and all the same issues, I just don't think anyone owes me anything, and I refuse to be pathetic and a victim. Your work issue is a tricky situation, no doubt. You are a smart person, you'll figure it out. Hopefully without lying to your employer as well. Did you really not know this issues around international adoption times fluctuating when you started? Did you agency not prep you? Who are these agencies that didn't tell there people that international adoption timelines, for all countries can fluctuate? Goodness.
RQ - agency personel??? Ick! That reminds me of when i was doing ivf, and whenever we would start a thread about a particular clinic on one of the bulletin boards, complaining about the staff etc., someone would come on, extolling the virtues of the staff and telling us to stop whining, and you could TELL it was a staff member. They were ALL reading the boards, we found out later! I guess i shouldnt be surprised
And Dianne, I'm sorry about your work situation, I never really thought about what it would be like for people with jobs like yours, it really does sound frustrating and unfair... hang in there.
hi "not so patient in mn..."
my agency said 6-10 months wait. they told us that anything could happen, but that china was the way to go as it was affordable and fairly predictable. that's what we were prepared for.
however, even if they had told us, "it's a total crap-shoot as far as time is concerned," we still would've tried to adopt and it still would've f~ed with my job. my point is not, "oh poor me and my dumb job," my point is , "oh the poor person out there who cannot think of why it would affect anyone's job, therefore it doesn't affect anyone's job."
i don't think i go around feeling vctimized, but i don't think it's fair to say, as someone else was, that everyone has a job that will just roll with it as not everyone does. my example is purely to point out that there are things possible beyond some people's obviously limited imaginations.
so often i feel that on some sites people are out to tell you how to feel and what to do and who to be and what to worry about, as if you had no "self" inside of you that you were listening to, and as if you had not been managing thus far fine on your own.
and i think it's highly unfair to criticize the RQ because she's selflessly letting us all in on this stuff, and she doesn't have to.
who are all these people whose parents never taught them that everyone is different and has a right to be? goodness.
dianne
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