The "switched from Russia" rumor
I've been looking through the Russia boards this morning looking to see if there was a mass exodus early last year. I started in January and went up to May and I just didn't see it. I saw two people who were thinking of switching countries, but in the end they did not. It also looks like things were in really bad shape in November, but by January things were looking up: Here are a few threads I found in January 2005:
http://forums.adoption.com/showthread.php?t=185213 http://forums.adoption.com/showthread.php?t=184606
I guess I'm not convinced. Yeah, there were probably some people in November who chose China instead of Russia, and if it took them five months to put their dossier together then would have given them an April DTC and a May LID. But I didn't see people already going to Russia who were considering China. Even of those who were considering switching, most of them were considering the Ukraine, not China.
Is there anyone reading this who would have gone to Russia if there hadn't been problems, and then decided on China specifically because of the slowdown? If so then please let me know.
I've heard two things: that the influx of dossiers was because Russia shut down so people switched to China in midstream (and that does not seem to be the case), and that Oprah did a special on Chinese adoptions in the late fall of 2004 and it made a bunch of people decide to adopt. I have no idea how to research to see if Oprah may have indeed done so. Is there anyone out there adopting because of Oprah? Would you admit it if you were? Are there really people who watch someone on TV and then make that kind of decision? I dunno, maybe if she made it look easy, and they'd always thought it would be super hard.... I guess I can see someone saying "wow, that's not so bad, a homestudy and some paperwork and then a trip where we have guides with us the whole time, I can do that".
Either way, I'm not sure it's super important why the people are in the China program.. the important thing is to know if it was a one time bubble or if the numbers went up in April and then stayed up. If it is indeed because of Russia or Oprah, then there is a good chance that it is a bubble.
If it was a bubble then good for us who are waiting, because it's more reason to believe things will speed back up. If it was not, then good for the babies, as more of them will find their way into loving families.
posted by RumorQueen at 3/12/2006 09:23:00 AM
20 Comments:
I'm tellin' ya, I know from personal experience. I have good friends who were caught in that Russia slowdown. They got a referral in February and couldn't bring their twin daughters home until late July. Five long months from referral til travel. As you may know, Russian adoption involves two trips. One to meet the kid and accept/decline the referral, and another to bring the kid home. Lots of people my friends met on their first trip in February gave up along the way, because they encountered nothing but roadblocks.
And yes, I do know other people (including a couple using my agency) that had a referral from Russia and encountered difficulties, and are now awaiting a referral from China.
There were some very well publicized cases of abused Russian children by adoptive parents worldwide. It made the Russians very upset and they deliberately stalled until they could straighten some things out, but in the meantime, it became a politically sensitive issue in Russia. Another family I know told of an entire planeload of passengers bound from Russia to Italy that turned around and came back because a passenger complained to a Russian flight attendant that the new Italian parents were abusing the kid. Apparently, the new parents had to get little forceful to get a toddler to sit down during turbulence. This was reported in the British press.
I offer this up by way of illustrating that it really did get very slow in Russia last spring and summer. Things picked up again in the fall for Russia. Since there are approximately equal numbers of Russians and Chinese adopted by Americans annually, the likelihood is high that some people chose China over Russia for a few months in order to avoid those problems. If you look at the yahoo dtc enrollment (which is NOT, btw, the be-all and end-all on numbers), enrollment in groups declines significantly starting with September.
But look, I don't have to convince you. It's your blog. Believe what you want. To me, it's a much more logical reason for a blip in applications than Oprah.
Cheers,
Anon2
I had read early on in our process many people speaking about how they watched Oprah and felt it was a sign ect. so they finally took the plunge.
I missed the show, so I can`t comment on how it made me feel, however I do feel Oprah is very influential and I can understand people feeling a desire after watching a program that Oprah had on. Either way, it has caused a longer wait yet it managed to allow for children in China to find forever families so much sooner. That has to be a good thing in the end for everyone.
I agree that watching Oprah should not make people decide to adopt. However, it someone watching was ready to adopt, looking at adoption, researching adoption maybe the numbers of people who "took action" increased during that time. People who would have taken action anyway. I did not see the Oprah show but I did see the National Geographic DVD called China's Lost Girls that was featured during Oprah's show. Who knows, if she can mention a book and its a best seller, mention a product and retails stores shelves empty. Just maybe she contributed to the bubble in dossiers received spring of 2005. Her show aired in Dec 2004 I believe.
Anon3
Anon2 - it's not about questioning YOU, it's about me not just hearing a rumor and believing it... I always try to find backup for things I hear, and I couldn't do that here, so I'm asking if there is anyone out there who made the switch.
We started researching adoption options in April 2004. I followed boards from Russia, Ukraine and China (and a little bit from Guatemala but not as much).
In late 2004 Russia had a government reorganization that created problems with re-accreditation of agencies and release of registry letters (a necessary step). At that time, adoptions were on hold. There were new Russian adoption laws in January and the uncertainty continued well into March and April of 2005. I don't think that people started travelling again until mid-2005 and that was people who were previously matched/waiting. (I know someone who had made the first trip to Russia and met her daughter and then had to wait over 5 months to bring her home).
I can see that PAPs who were starting the process in late 2004/early 2005 would have eliminated Russia from their list of choices for international adoption. Not only were the process on an indefinate hold, there were also new laws that it was uncertain how they would be interpreted/applied.
Also, remember that Ukraine closed and Vietnam had U.S. imposed shut down at the same time frame. While I agree that probably not many people formally "switched" from Russia to China, I do think that PAPs who were just starting the process in early 2005 would have leaned towards China over Russia. This would lead to a spike in dossiers logged in Spring and Summer of 2005.
Hello,
I am one of them!!! DD and I were to adopt from Russia. We began 12/04. By June '05 our agency was concerned with the happenings in Russia (3 families had killed their adopted children in the US in '05) and by Sept '05 after the DUMA finally held their meeting (which was supposed to happen in June, July, Aug, you get the picture) our agency told us to RUN not walk away.
We began redoing our paperwork 9/22/05 and were LID 11/22/05. There were 11 couples in our small agency involved in Russia at the time of the split. 4 had met their children already and chose to hang on (on a side note not one of those familes got their kids-2 for reasons I do not know, 1 b/c the child developed severe disorders and the parent did not request SN and the second b/c a family member magically appeared and would not relenquish rights). One couple chose the domestic route. Two I have no idea what happened to and that leaves the 4 of us who chose China. DD and I chose b/c at the time it was only 6 months until referral, one couple wanted Korea but did not meet the age requirements, one wanted a girl from the get go, and I do not know the reasons for the 4th. So I can say that in my small agency--they did about 80 Chinese adoptions in '05-- 4 of us jumped ship to China BUT not until Sept and Oct after the DUMA's decision to only allow accredited agencies in the country.
On a side note, I also have a cousin who was trying to adopt from Moldoava (not a big area for adoption) but pretty much the same thing happend there as in Russia (only accredited agencies) and their adoption fell apart in the summer of '05, I beleive July but don't quote me on it.
I have been paper pregnant for about 15 months and NOBODY has even offered me an epidural....boy can I use it!!!!
The Oprah show aired on December 2, 2004. It wasn't a show about adoption, but about children who have changed the world. Part of this show was a clip from the Lost Girls DVD. This show is what sparked an interest in first the orphanages and then adoption for me. I started to learn about the situation in China and the parental requirements. It's very interesting that you think one might be embarassed to admit that this Oprah show caused them to consider adoption. I'm not embarassed to admit it. I think we are all lead to adoption in many different ways. I am very glad I watched Oprah that day, it has changed my life forever.
We were one family that switched from Ukraine to China, but were side-tracked inbetween by an offer of a private domestic adoption which fell through, and we had to switch agencies, so we weren't DTC until 2/7/06. If we hadn't been side-tracked, we would possibly have been DTC in 5/05, and part of the "bubble".
-Nancy in NJ
Hi All
I am one of the couples that the 4th anonymous mentioned. She explained our situation perfect although DD should have been DH.
I will mention that in Sept 05 only 22 agencies had been reaccredidated in Russia out of I believe 56. I just recently went on the US Embassy site and just about all the original agencies have now been reaccredidated. Soooo things should have started picking up again in Russia. Which takes about 8 months total to bring a child home.
Our problem was that our agency had never been accredidated. The DUMA said anyone doing adoptions with nonaccredidated agencies (considered an independent adoption) would be fined/jailed.
Anyone considering an adoption should have done their homework before choosing a country and we knew about the problems in Russia. We were assured that this would not be a problem for us. The orphanage that they used had only 70 children in it. The children were very well cared for and they assured us of their health. We wanted a child home asap and would adopt a second child from China asap.
If we had started with China we would have been DTC in May 05! we were DTR in May 05.
Also, anyone who did see Oprah and the situation in Russia probably would have gone with China.
In the end we choose the wrong path and I believe we are now back on track.
I have three biological children. We were planning to have a fourth. I did see the Dec 2004 show where they aired a clip of the Lost Daughters of China. This DID spark my interest in adoption. However- I reserached adoption - specifically China- thanks to Oprah's show- very carefully and my husband and I came to a conclusion that adoption would be a great way to have another child. So for us Oprah did spark the interest- but did not make us decide. Furthermore- I am still paperchasing- as the decision is obviously a big one to make- so i doubt the influx of dossiers came from people viewing the Oprah show- unless people jumped on the horse the day after it aired. Just my thoughts- :)
My husband and I switched to China after having our dossier in Russia. We were caught in all the problems the above posters mention. We pulled our dossier from Russia and had to incur the expense and lost time to switch. It was a heart wrenching decision, but one that made sense for us. We did this July '05 and have an LID with China of 11/4/05. We are thrilled with our decision and are so happy to have a light at the end of our tunnel.
I did see the Oprah show in 2004 and I wouldn't say it is the reason that we are now adopting, it certainly put an idea in my head. It came at a point when I was thinking about another child and after seeing the show we investigated further. It took us another few months to agree that this is what we wanted to do but in the end, the decision was ours.
Another factor is also that other countries (Viet Nam and Georgia, for example have closed/were closed to International Adoption) so there are fewer choices for families who may be interested in Int'l Adoption.
We started in Russia (in May 05), went about 1 month into our hoemstudy, and decided to switch to the more stable China program.
Our agency was without its Russian accreditation, like all other US agencies, from January through May of 2006. Many agencies in fact were never reaccredited in May.
Add to that the fact that at the same time, Ukraine's program was growing more negative toward adoption (and in fact, I believe, recentaly halted taking any new adoption applications) and there were no Eastern European countries that would be great alternatives to Russia.
This had to have an effect. It won't show in any statistics anyone can get their hands on, but with no agencies accredited for 5 months, I would think many PAP's would simply choose a different program rather than take chances.
We are not the only family with our agency that has switched to China. And how many simply chose China from the start?? we'll never know but it has to have something to do with the spike.
China simply has been a stable program - and far more positive towards international adoption than the Eastern European countries.
This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.
My comment about admitting if Oprah made you adopt was because... well, people read the books she says to read, people buy the stuff she talks about... it just seems sad that people would choose to adopt a child from half way around the world just because she talks about it. Adopting is such a huge commitment, it seems kind of scary. But, as I said, if someone was already thinking along those lines, I can see how they might choose China instead of a domestic adoption, where otherwise they may not have. As for an Oprah effect - if the program aired in December of '04 I would expect that the earliest LID's would be late May, with most probably being in July. I don't think we can blame the April surge on Oprah, as I can't see them deciding to get started in early December and mailing their dossier off in March. In some areas of the country you have to wait three or four months on your I171H, and that wait doesn't even start until the homestudy is complete.
Thanks for the info about when it aired - that helps a lot with figuring out when the bubble from it may have hit.
As for the effect of the Russia accreditation snafus on China adoption - it does seem that if the problems were starting in November of 2004 that the April sruge could be blamed on that - people who were already in the homestudy portion of the program could easily switch, and people who were just getting started would have likely started with China from the beginning.
The question is.. when does that surge stop? It sounds like things didn't really straighten up with Russia until late last year? That means that we may see the huge LID months for China up until early next year.
Thank you to everyone who helped us understand what happened and when with the Russian situation.
I had an official referral from Belarus (white russia) in August, 2004, country closed down in October 2004 (literally the week I was supposed to travel) and I changed countries in April of 2005 when it finally became clear that they weren't going to honor their official referrals. A number of families would have been left in the same position to find another country to adopt from.
Has anyone mentioned the tsunami as having an effect on their desire to adopt? I couldn't get those images out of my head...we had talked about adopting for years...quite honestly, the tsunami pushed me over the edge...life is too short...we are so very blessed and need to share it with others less fortunate. If I could have flown to India I would have... I may sound crazy but I am being honest. We started our paperwork Jan'05 and have a LID of May 31st, so the timeline for the Oprah show( which I did not see) could definately have an impact on our group.
For me it was the death of Pope John Paul II. I was inspired by his life of service. He once said that we in the West are the rich at their banquet, while the rest of the world sits at the gates and starves. I heard that quote as he was dying and I decided to bring one child home.
We actually did switch from Russia to China in January of 2005. We were uncomfortable with what was going on in Russia (accreditation issues, elaborate additional requirements--in some cases even a 3rd trip, which was undoable for us with small kids at home, new fees, and so on). We were about midway through our dossier. Our homestudy was complete for Russia but hadn't been signed off yet so it was pretty easy to do the 3 additional China-required visits and have the HS modified for China.
We corresponded with several others who made the switch at about the time we did. Some didn't want to post about it on the public boards because they knew it was disheartening to those who were sticking with Russia to hear that people were switching. I minimized my posts about the switch because of this.
I don't know how many people actually switched (or chose China over Russia at this time to begin with because of issues in Russia) but I know of at least several, most of whom were LID in April or May (including us).
P.S. I love your blog! Thanks!!
Just to be clear. We are adopting because we want to add to our family. I will never make my girls feel that they should be thankful that they were adopted. I will never make them feel that I "saved" them from an orphanage. If I hadn't adopted them then someone else would have. I didn't save anyone. Remember, there are more parents than babies right now.
I am the lucky one, because I get to be their mom. Whether they are lucky or not is entirely up to them, to decide when they are grown. Perhaps they could have been even luckier and been adopted by some billionaire, or by Meg Ryan.
If you are adopting to "save" a child, you need to think long and hard about how that attitude may effect your child someday. There are thousands of adult Korean adoptees who've spent way more than their fair share of time with a therapist trying to deal with the whole "saved from a horrible life so I should be grateful" thing. There are hundreds and hundreds of their stories floating around the internets - search for them, read them. And then try very hard to not make your child feel that way. Please.
I agree completely...my baby is giving me the opportunity to be a mom again, a chance I would not have had without her. She is enriching our lives and make our family of 5 complete. I do think it will take a lifetime( mine and hers) to totally understand the complexity of the issues surrounding international adoption, cultural and self identity, etc... but it will only take a minute of her in my arms to know who the lucky one is!!!!!!!ME!!!
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